Tome of Battle Update

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Sajuuk
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Tome of Battle Update

Postby Sajuuk » Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:01 pm

Okay, rather than re-concept more than a few NPCs for my Eberron game, I've begun to work on a Tome of Battle rebalance/Pathfinder update. Feel free to call me a weeaboo now.
The plan is not to bring Crusader, Swordsage, and Warblade into Pathfinder, but to make alternate classes and/or archetypes for pre-existing Pathfinder classes that will get maneuver usage. The only one I have done work on so far is the swordsage-equivalent, the Sublime Monk.

Have a look, give me your scathing comments, hate messages, insults, and constructive feedback. Especially constructive feedback. Doubly especially so if you've got something in mind that can replace the Empty Body monk ability.

Sublime Monk

This is just a work in progress and not yet fit to be used in my game by PCs or NPCs.

One of the key things to note is that maneuver recovery is gone. Once you expend a maneuver, its gone for the encounter. I'm thinking about adding a "burn a ki point to recover a maneuver" swift action ability, but that's still just a concept, but the Adaptive Style and Sudden Recovery feats are gone for good.

The bonus feat list for Army of One, Dancing Leaf, Falling Star, and Storm Falcon are still in the works.

Also, Flurry of Blows has the same restrictions as Zen Archer's for Falling Star and Storm Falcon, in the sense that you cannot use it with Manyshot and Rapid Shot.

Army of One
Dancing Leaf
Falling Star
Storm Falcon
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Re: Tome of Battle Update

Postby Zanaikin » Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:42 am

That current design is overpowered as hell. If you want to give monks maneuvers, they should be denied of the following:
--- Flurry of Blows (because that IS a maneuver, in a sense, and if maneuvers are enabled it should be replaced by maneuvers. Combine flurry with those Tiger Claw or Desert Wind bonus attack maneuvers or Time Stands Still and you have OMG-TOO-MANY-HITS-IN-ONE-TURN)
--- Fast Movement (or at least no more than say, +10ft; should be replaced by stances & boosts)
--- Ki Pool (should be replaced by boosts).
Basically, it won't be monk anymore.

Look at any maneuver class and you'll notice they have very few powerful class abilities
Look at your monk right now... it's like halfway gestalt classing.
Honestly, Pathfinder doesn't really need maneuvers (at least not on a wide basis). If you want proof, I can toss you a cavalier/warblade and show you.
CHALLENGE + KNIGHT'S CHALLENGE + a good multi-hit maneuver (POUNCING CHARGE)
/boss-dead-in-one-round
It'll make Twined Maximized Spells look like child's play.
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Re: Tome of Battle Update

Postby Sajuuk » Sun Dec 25, 2011 3:40 am

I probably should have mentioned that Iron Heart will not be being updated and not be usable. The "cavalier" equivalent will only have Devoted Spirit and White Raven.

PS: before anyone sees this post and harasses me to do other stuff tonight in regards to games - go spend time with whoever you are spending the holidays with instead of bugging me :p. I've gotta be up at the crack of dawn tomorrow morning to do holiday stuff before going to work. And now I'm going to sleep with visions of sugarplum d20s dancing in my head.
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Titles: He Whose Hand Shapes What Is, Epic Destroyer of Loot, Creator of the Elemental Plane of Bishoujos.

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Sajuuk
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Re: Tome of Battle Update

Postby Sajuuk » Sun Dec 25, 2011 5:42 pm

Flurry of blows is gone.
[PCs Currently At - Sailing The High Seas]
TODAY: Arodus 28, 4711
PARTY BUFFS ACTIVE: None
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Re: Tome of Battle Update

Postby Zanaikin » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:01 pm

Recommendation:

Each ability you gave the sublime monk should clearly state what monk abilities it traded for it. You'll be surprised how much this helps keeping balancing in consideration, and how much it helps others understand your balancing considerations.

Cause right now, I don't see any justification for why the monk has some of these abilities. For example, there is NO reason to give it Weapon Specialization--- the feat opens the way to some very powerful fighter-only feats (like Melee Weapon Mastery) and should not be given lightly. Even Cavalier Orders that give Weapon Focus doesn't give Weapon Spec, and very few PrCs do (I can't think of any base classes).

Uncanny Initiative is broken as balls. Take-20 on init is powerful enough to be a capstone ability.
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Sajuuk
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Re: Tome of Battle Update

Postby Sajuuk » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:12 pm

Uncanny initiative never should have been there to begin with, no idea how that got in there.
[PCs Currently At - Sailing The High Seas]
TODAY: Arodus 28, 4711
PARTY BUFFS ACTIVE: None
SKULL AND SHACKLES COMBAT MAP
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SKULL AND SHACKLES PARTY LOOT/SUPPLIES

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Stormreach Company Assets

"No matter how difficult or absurd you make a puzzle, your players will find an even more impossible and preposterous way of solving it." - http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=680
Titles: He Whose Hand Shapes What Is, Epic Destroyer of Loot, Creator of the Elemental Plane of Bishoujos.

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Re: Tome of Battle Update

Postby Sajuuk » Sun Dec 25, 2011 6:30 pm

New version is up, link in the top post still works.

-Flurry of blows is gone
-Maneuver progression reworked
-What was traded for what is back in (it was in in a version before I posted)
-Uncanny Initiative removed, since it was only in there by mistake
-Martial Lore added to skill list
-Way of the Weapon Training modified to prevent broken combos using 3.5 feats that required Weapon Specialization *cough*Melee Weapon Mastery*cough*
[PCs Currently At - Sailing The High Seas]
TODAY: Arodus 28, 4711
PARTY BUFFS ACTIVE: None
SKULL AND SHACKLES COMBAT MAP
SKULL AND SHACKLES NPC RELATIONS DATABASE
SKULL AND SHACKLES PARTY LOOT/SUPPLIES

SHADOWRUN COMBAT MAP

IRON GODS PARTY LOOT/SUPPLIES

Stormreach Company Assets

"No matter how difficult or absurd you make a puzzle, your players will find an even more impossible and preposterous way of solving it." - http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=680
Titles: He Whose Hand Shapes What Is, Epic Destroyer of Loot, Creator of the Elemental Plane of Bishoujos.

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Re: Tome of Battle Update

Postby Mr_Praetorian » Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:30 pm

Honestly, I'd say that Pathfinder does quite fine without maneuvers. Also, remember that introducing maneuvers into a game is an all or nothing gambit.
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