Planning Discussions

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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby Zanaikin » Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:40 am

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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby Laharl » Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:39 pm

Updated with stub histories and personalities. Don't expect me on much over the next few days, either.


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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby Zanaikin » Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:09 pm

update on Imperial vehicles, new ones include the command landship, the battle barge, REDEIN, and escort frigate
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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby Zanaikin » Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:34 am

Okay, as of current, start date for this game is going to be first week of March (I start my spring break then =9).

On the next deadline, please decide on the landing location before February 15.
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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby TheDude51 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:59 pm

Some initial ideas for landing:

In Delral/Faerskor continent, immediately attack them with overwhelming force
-benefits: we are already hostile to these two due to the destruction of the orbital platforms, and this will immediately neutralize the threat from them. If we don't do this, these two will work against us at every turn, most likely supplying and aiding our enemies and even sending a fleet across the sea to fight us directly while we are engaged with others.

If we succeed in conquering them, we will control the most productive area on Chroma, securing a huge industrial base to aid in taking the rest of the world.

Downside: EXTREMELY risky. These are the two most powerful clans in the world, and it is far from certain that we will be able to defeat them with our single brigade.

-other options coming, I need to go to class before i can type them-
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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby Mr_Praetorian » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:08 pm

...

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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby Sajuuk » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:24 pm

I agree with Drew and have no official input on this matter.
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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby TheDude51 » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:35 pm

I'm going through all the options that I see as conceivably having a chance to work, and that one was the most straightforward. Against Delral and Faerskor we will have a direct battle against a technologically inferior opponent.

Option 2: Mohara/Kusanagi:
land somewhere in this territory. Immediately ally with Kusanagi and conquer Mohara.
Benefits: We will have overwhelming force and native allies from the start. Mohara will be most dangerous if we face them once we are already established, when they can infiltrate and sabotage our bases and territories. By taking them out early on, we destroy the enemy most skilled at this kind of tactics and direct conflict more to the diplomatic and purely military spheres, where we are better able to fight evenly. Further, Mohara has a large industrial base that we should be able to co-opt if we do manage to conquer them quickly.

Downsides:
Mohara is unlikely to face us directly, and neither the Legion nor the Kusanagi military are optimized for urban conflict. Taking Moharan cities could prove to be a long and bloody task.

The Kusanagi will not be pleased with any arrangement that subjugates them to a foreign power. They are likely to reject our help if it comes at the price of their sovereignty, unless they feel they have no other choice.

Even if the Kusanagi are cooperative, Delral and Faerskor will be a problem. They can be expected to immediately cut off their trade with Kusanagi, a move that could significantly hurt our allies military capabilities in the short run. Further, Delral and Faerskor could send a huge fleet to attack us while we are bogged down in a grueling urban campaign.


Option 3:
Small clans
Land somewhere in the patchwork of smaller clans that dot the Eastern Continent. Take control, peacefully if possible, of one or more of the clans, offering them power and prosperity in exchange for their allegiance to us. This should be much easier diplomatically than trying to ally immediately with the Kusanagi, since smaller clans have a much weaker bargaining position and it only one of the over a dozen clans needs to accept in order for us to gain a foothold.

Once planetside, we upgrade the manufacturing base and military power of chosen clan, then expand. Start making offers to other clans around us to join into our commonwealth/alliance/empire type thing. We take the clan that most forecefully rejects us, and crush them utterly, then return to negotiations with the others, promising peace and prosperity if they do join. Our objective is to build up a large and powerful allied military force that is more technologically advanced than our competitors to offset our lack of numbers, and to demonstrate the prosperity that Imperial commerce and technology can bring.

We would most likely use this influence and the promise of ending/phasing out Incarnum slavery to build alliances with the Asa, Akashi, and Kusanagi, then move on Mohara.

Advantages:
Least risky in the short term. Fighting Delral/Faerskor initially is a huge military challenge, and Option 2 is a huge diplomatic challenge and a non-trivial military challenge.

Allows us to set up a power base, build alliances, and expand our strength while gathering more information on the specifics of Chroman geopolitics.

Disadvantages:
Both the Mohara and the Delral/Faerskor will likely move against us, each in its own way. Delral and Faerskor will be openly hostile from the start, definitely interfering with trade and most likely also coordinating alliances against us and possibly invading directly. This strategy also gives all of Chroma the chance to unite against us before we are strong. Although "all of Chroma" is unlikely, an alliance between Delral/Faerskor and a large group of the other small clans could conceivably put us in an even worse military situation than if we had invaded the Delral/Faerskor directly.

Mohara will begin to infiltrate our territory and our Chroman allies, and they will be have fertile ground due to our thin knowledge of our allies and the small clans fractured nature.

This strategy will also give the most chance for other clans to steal our technology and upgrade their own forces, reducing our technological advantage. Since Chroma is only a single tech level behind us, Delral and Faerskor could conceivably close most of the tech gap if they get enough information and are given enough time, making them much more formidable.
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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby Zanaikin » Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:57 pm

Alright, on your thoughts. I'll represent both your tact officer and the Imperial intelligence =9

On outright taking Delral and Faerskor first :
This is likely a very bad idea. Because these two clans live underground and there is no good means of gathering data on them from outer space, Imperial intelligence really has very little clue exactly how powerful they are or what their defenses are composed of. Still if they're anything like their dwarve cousins of Penthiae, they're guaranteed to be very dug-in with a wide array of fortifications. Combine this with the fact that Imperium Legion brigades are optimized for field battles in open terrain (as opposed to any kind of underground combat), then you have a near impossible task at hand.


On Mohara/Kusanagi Area:
I think your analysis on this one is pretty straight on. It all really depends on how negotiations to ally with the Kusanagi goes. Yet even if you get their support you still face the Mohara's distinct advantage in urban combat which by the look of things, is obviously what the Kusanagi has problems as well. Their cruiser fleets after all can only do so much in supporting infantry. And since the Mohara relies on infiltrator and sabotage, their threat grows with time as opposed to being relatively diminished with time. On the plus side, one should note that the Mohara is also the center of Incarnum slave trade across Chroma. Taking it out would, on the good side, deprive resource inflow to a lot of the evil industries of Chroma, but on the bad side will piss a lot of political powers off.


On going after a small clan first:
As you've identified, this is definitely the least risky proposal, also the least gain, although it depends very heavily on where said smaller clan is and which major power they're near or possibly next to. Although keep in mind that occupying a major power's "buffer state" may alarm them far more greatly than simply occupying something one or two territories away, but once again, the safer option offers less advantages to exploit.

One thing Intel will note is that with the Jinnan pushing through the last of the Bisha defenses, the all the territories in the northern half of the eastern continent are threatened by this aggressive clan, especially those closer to them. Many of these smaller clans may just be interested in becoming vassals to another power as long as they can get more autonomy than what the Jinnan will leave them (which isn't much at all given history). Of course this would imply fighting the Jinnan army once they pushes into our new position, and this northern military power doesn't scare people for no reason.



Furthermore the note you identified on technology gap is definitely true. It will be impossible to completely keep all technologies a secret, the Imperials are no more saints than the rest of mankind and secrets will fall to the other side with time. However, unlike in the Penthiaen Campaign, the Chromian industry IS built on a electromechanical energy tech-base with transistors and all that, it will be much easier for them to adapt to Imperial technology than the painful process Penthiaens went through. So keep in mind with every passing day this technology gap grows smaller once the Imperials land. Unfortunately political considerations calls for a slow takeover in a prolonged campaign, so the military simply has to face these problems themselves.
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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby TheDude51 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:14 am

On further reflection, I've come up with two more specific strategies we could pursue for the small clans.

The Northern Strategy:
Land in Bisha or Sanada territory, promising to help them against Jinnan in exchange for their loyalty. We gather as many of the small clans in that area as we can, then invade the Frostspark Peninsula.

Pros:
Easy diplomacy. The Bisha and Sanada have almost no choice but to side with us, and so we will be guaranteed a solid start with a few allies.

Cons:
We would begin with a drawn-out campaign against one of the more powerful militaries on Chroma. This will drain our resources somewhat, and allow everyone else we might ever fight to have ample information on our tactics and capabilities. Delral and Faerskor would also probably interfere, supplying Jinnan with arms and cash, organizing an attack from our rear, or even intervening directly with their military.

Long-Term:
We would try to gather more small clans to us, and would make overtures towards the Akashi, Asa, and Kusanagi based on freeing slaves in our territory. If all went well, this would leave us solidly in control of the northern half of the Eastern continent.

The Southern Strategy:
This relies on a solid diplomatic grounding with the Kusanagi. We land in the small states east of Mohara and establish a power base there as described in the Small States strategy above. We then ally with Kusanagi to launch a joint invasion of Mohara.

Pros:
Easy start establishing a base of power in smaller states.

If we pull it off well, we gain more and more powerful allies than any other of the strategies.

Chroman forces from the smaller states could provide the infantry manpower needed to take and occupy a city from the Moharans.

Cons:
Relies on alliance with Kusanagi from the start almost as much as the original Kusanagi/Mohara plan does.

Delral and Faerskor have ample time to pursue one of any number of strategies against us, allying with small states that oppose our takeover and with the Moharans.

Mohara will be immediately threatened by this, unlike the Northern Strategy, and will move against us quickly.

Long-term:
Conquer Mohara, ally with the Asa and Akashi, and sweep up any remaining smaller states. This will leave us firmly in control of the South and center of the Eastern continent.

I personally would prefer to pursue the Southern strategy, diplomacy permitting. It seems that the Mohara would be a much more difficult foe to face over the long term than the Jinnan. However, this hinges on allying with the Kusanagi.

What I would like to do is to promise to restore something like the old order and unite the planet under a single government led for the most part by the Kusanagi clan, subject to Imperial control. I'm not sure whether we are politically able to do this. If we do, it will somewhat hinder further diplomacy with other clans, but I feel the advantage of getting the Kusanagi on our side right from the start is big enough to offset this.

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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby Zanaikin » Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:48 am

Chroma map updated with a few more names.

Yes there is a clan named 'Obama' (xD), and yes that is a Japanese phrase (it means "little beach"). I found this particularly funny when I came across it.
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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby Mr_Praetorian » Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:01 am

Its well and good to consider the military issues with our landing spot, but we can't forget about politics. We need to remember that no matter where we land, we're going to be the outsiders, and will most likely be treated as such. We're going to be a small "clan" with a small army, and starting off the campaign with a military assault feels like bad planning to me. Besides, opening up with a "bang!" as it were, will also make us look hostile, which is bad for diplomacy.

If anything, we need to start off small and as unnoticed as possible. Not just because we don't want to look like a major threat, but also because we need to observe how the clans interact with each other. It may require us to play the part of a vassal for a while, but if it leads to us to being able to build up a network in allies, then I think it shall be worth it.

Where exactly we'll land is a decision for someone else. All I ask is that we be careful.
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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby TheDude51 » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:10 am

I don't think that is really an option, unfortunately. In order to land in the first place, we need to destroy the orbital defense networks of the Delral and Faerskor, which is effectively an act of war, as well as a dead giveaway as to the magnitude of the threat we pose. From the moment we set foot on Chroma the two largest clans will be out to destroy us, which means we need to quickly gather allies and resources simply to survive. If we do not, Delral and Faerskor will use their economic influence and military power to marshal a coalition against us.

I do agree that more information on Chroman politics would be of inestimable value. However, we do not need to wait until we land to begin to gather such information.

Would it be possible to begin seeding Chroma with observers and/or infiltrators, or to hire Chroman informants, before our full invasion begins? Even information that is public domain on the Chroman internet or in news publications would give us a huge wealth of knowledge about Chroman politics.
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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby Zanaikin » Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:36 am

most of the information collected thus far are from recon probes intercepting public broadcasting and communications from the planet.

the question is, what you want to know? cause I'm not typing up a relationship chart between THIS many factions.

the planet's political outlook are pretty Feudal overall though, which isn't surprisingly given its setup of clan-based factionalism.
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Re: Planning Discussions

Postby Laharl » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:02 pm

I have to agree with Judson that our intentions will be made immediately clear as we land. Also, this is more of a strategic note than a landing location note, how many sci-fi novels have we all read where the squabbling local factions (I've read WW2 alternate histories like this) band together to deal with the invaders? That's one thing we cannot allow to happen, as their combined might will blow us off the planet.

Also, while more information would be nice, recon drones won't really be able to get us the kind of intel we need. If we had actual Sigint, that's somewhat more useful, but Humint is unmatched for political intelligence.

As for any one option, we probably can't take Delral and Faerskor straight off, simply because orbital bombardments aren't going to get us to destroy all their caves, leaving us with a situation not too different from when the US took various Pacific islands from the Japanese and had to advance inch by painful inch through the caves, taking massive losses. We simply don't have the manpower for that, not to mention our troops aren't really specced for that kind of close combat. If they were, we'd have a lot less trouble with Mohara.

Kusanagi is a thought for first contact, especially if we can deal with Mohara quickly. They honestly worry me more than any of the rest, simply because they not only take the long view and wait for their opportunity to strike, but their area of military expertise is among our weaker options.

I personally would prefer a strategy of dealing Delral and Faerskor fairly quickly, as they would be the greatest threat when augmented with Imperial technology. Mohara is a bigger long-term threat, but the dwarves and gnomes are our biggest short-term threat.


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Over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot xxx galore',
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