Military Tactics

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Military Tactics

Postby Zanaikin » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:39 am

There isn't a discussion forum this time, so the info forum will be used.




The topic post will keep an index of links for references:
- The "bible" of Dai's tactical thinking

- With basic tactical methodologies and animated excel battle descriptions.
- An oversized database, 'nuff said.
- Videos for the History Channel's Decisive Battles series

- Light cavalry based army of the Mongol Horde.
- Heavy cavalry based army of the Byzantine Empire.
- Heavy infantry based army of the Roman Empire.
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Imperial Military Tactics

Postby Zanaikin » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:14 am

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Chromian Military Information

Postby Zanaikin » Sun Mar 01, 2009 1:48 am

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Re: Military Tactics

Postby TheDude51 » Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:07 am

Ahmet is looking through records to try to find out if Mohara has fought any major battles recently (or not so recently, if no recent ones are available), trying to figure out what tactics they like to use, what tactics their enemies usually use, and how successful they have been militarily.

He also looks for details on Mohara's military assets, if there is any more information out there.
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In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?
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Re: Military Tactics

Postby Zanaikin » Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:01 pm

Mohara military tactics - more like a lack thereof, at least in tactical maneuvers. Their military strategy specializes in urban attritional warfare, but for the most part its rather questionable just how good tactical sense Mohara commanders have.

The last major open battle they fought was at the beginning of the current Mohara-Kusanagi war, when a Moharan cruiser fleet took on the Kusanagi vanguard in a straight on long-range fire exchange match and was defeated. Since then the Mohara gained an understanding that the quality of their navy simply doesn't compare to the Kusanagi and avoided any open engagements in contested airspace. Instead they've simply been relying on dragging the enemy into prolong urban sieges dominated by street-to-street and building-to-building fighting. The general countermeasure if to simply surround the city and strangle its defenders' supplies while assaulting its districts. Although even the effectiveness of that is still limited - the Kusanagi discovered after taking the first few towns, that the Mohara urban centers seems to be linked by both long and short range underground tunnel systems, capable of bringing in both supplies and reinforcements. It also took the Kusanagi very short time to discover they really don't want to fight the Mohara in the tunnels. So basically urban siege against Mohara has pretty much revolved around searching for access point to their tunnel systems and taking surface control. Unless the attacker either don't care or manage to evacuate the civilians in time for a nuclear strike, although even that is unlike to terminate all resistance, it simply makes the city worthless to both sides.

The Mohara has one of the best light infantry training programs across Chroma, and urban combat is the one scenario where light infantry can fight enemy forces (including powered infantry) without exposing their weaknesses. They have mobile units of sky cruiser squadrons and powered infantry, although in rather limited numbers (at leasst in comparison to their sheer territorial/population size), numbering about 28~30 cruisers and two powered infantry corps (~73,000 total). Their light infantry strength is hard to estimate with any kind of accuracy, and their specialty - assassination and infiltration forces even more impossible to count.
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Re: Military Tactics

Postby Zanaikin » Tue Mar 03, 2009 1:22 am

[ In response to the post Judson made and then deleted... <_< ]

Some notes :

Star-Captain Liliane will recommend you refrain from putting any starships into low orbit longer than they absolutely must be. The reason is simple - if Delral & Faerskor, or any other state, launches a ground-based attack either with space-capable vehicles or just missiles, they need all the range they can get between the ships and the planet to mount a proper defense. You can certainly expect the Star-Cruisers (or singular, once the Hohenfried and Rossbach leaves within the week) to sit in high orbit where they'll at least get a few minutes to response to surprises.

Imperial movement speed is certain fast enough to avoid engagements, but making a charge on the enemy is still going to take a number of minutes given the sheer range of railguns (30~40+ miles). Casualties are obviously unavoidable, and bringing in the heavy firepower of the Imperial MBTs may be quite worth it. After all, Chromian Sky Cruisers are designed for attritional long-range pounding matches. At the same time, relying on the Langskips' higher grade HVMs will work fine as long as you have equal or greater strength than the opponent, although it would be ill advised to rely excessively on this kind of range advantage. For one only a portion of the Legion's firepower can be brought at that range, and at such high ranges with enemy EW jamming, accuracy is going to be downright bad at best (HVMs, unlike the howitzers/MLRS, MUST BE precision targeting).
Also reminder that while Cruise Missiles generally aren't as effective again the smaller-unit and more spread-out Imperial formations, the Imperials also only have launchers on the command landship. The Chromians however can pack individual launchers on their cruisers if needed.

Chromian shields had virtually limitless endurance, their only limitations is their strength - how much they can take before they're temporarily disabled, and only for a short time at that (this window lasts only a matter of seconds). HVM ammo supply can last several hours of continuous fire, since their shells are rather small. Howitzer ammo can also last a good time. The one thing Imperial Brigades have trouble keeping ammo supply up for is the MLRS, because they simply fire too fast. Although that might not be as much of an issue here - MLRS aren't precision targeting and are best used against light units scattered in an area than singular very-heavy units.
Note that Howitzers require their Gravity Drivers to maintain stability while firing. They can still firing while moving, although at a degraded accuracy.

Engaging near friendly fortifications is always a huge thing, especially in the age when point-defense requires a lot of vector calculations. Dealing with fire from one direction is a lot easily than fire from multiple directions. After all, this is what the Imperials used to great advantage when dealing with the Sacred Kingdom ship on Penthiae.

There is one advantage Howitzers and MLRS have that you probably don't realize yet. Railguns and HVMs are shallow, virtually straight trajectories. Meanwhile Howitzers and MLRS have arcing trajectories that allow indirect shots. Given the Chromian reliance on railguns it is rather possible to sit behind a natural barrier (like a steep mountain range) and lob shells over and be safe from retaliatory fire until the enemy can acquire LoS. The major disadvantage will be that once they do acquiring LoS and start firing, you're stuck at a massive altitude disadvantage.
( I'll mark the major mountains on the map later. There are four major ranges: Kusanagi territory along the west coast, Mohara territory along the west coast, and the two rather wide Delral & Faerskor ranges that's pretty easy to notice with their borders ).
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Re: Military Tactics

Postby TheDude51 » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:30 am

Tactical ideas:

Fight from the outer edge of Chroman firing range, engaging with our heavy artillery, missiles, and HVMs while near the edges of Chromian range. Our less precise missile volleys and artillery saturation would allow us to inflict significant damage on them, while the extreme range combined with our superior EW would severely degrade the Chromian forces' accuracy.

Question: Are Chromian heavy railguns reliant on precise targeting like our HVMs, or can they simply saturate an area without worrying about singling out individual targets?

Use REDEINs to intercept cruise missiles and harass enemy forces, hopefully drawing off fire from our heavy artillery, as well as neutralizing enemy fighters to help our own missiles get through. Intercepting enemy cruise missiles is probably the most important function here, depending on how powerful their missiles are and how willing they are to deploy nuclear weapons. Destroying such weapons at least several miles away from our forces is vital, and using REDEINs to control the airspace between the two forces will allow us to counter their superior cruise missile array, as well as launch harassing attacks with impunity.

Achieve local superiority. Hit one portion of their force with overwhelming power, using our superior mobility to get local numerical advantage. Due to the extreme range of Chroman weapons, this seems difficult, as every sky cruiser will most likely be able to hit units anywhere along the battle line. Perhaps we could induce the enemy formation to spread out.

Ideas:
Harass from multiple directions at once with multiple smaller forces, trying to force the enemy to split up and give chase.
Provide a credible threat of nuclear attack. The risk of high-powered, wide-area nuclear blasts would give them an incentive to spread out to minimize damage from the nuke, making them vulnerable to a concentrated strike on one portion of their line.
----Simple method: launch a salvo of nuclear-armed cruise missiles early in the first major engagement.
----Complex way: leak credible intel that the Imperials heavily employ nuclear cruise missiles, or that we are planning to do so in this campaign.
In either case, a nuclear pissing contest risks getting out of control quickly, although when world domination is on the line I doubt that our opponents will pull many punches anyway. Once again, it is vital to intercept enemy missiles well away from our lines to prevent them from using this sort of tactic on us.


Small-scale tactics:
Assassination: Use divinations to find the enemy bridge/command center, teleport in a squadron of Knights, and slaughter the command staff on a cruiser. Disable/Detonate the bridge, maybe activate a self-destruct mechanism, and teleport back. This kind of quick, teleport-based assault in a confined area would allow our forces to have Guard Mode shields active from the moment they entered combat, greatly increasing their durability relative to standard open-air mobile engagements.
Concerns: Do we have the teleportation capacity to get a sufficient force onto the enemy vessel? Do we have the attack power to quickly and decisively defeat an enemy command staff? Do we, in fact, have any idea of how the enemy's melee power might match up to our own?

Mini-Starshift: Teleport a miniature nuclear device onto an enemy sky cruiser, where it detonates and cripples the ship. Nuclear devices in the few hundred pound range of a single teleportation spell can pack a few kilotons of destructive power, which should be enough to destroy a ship if it detonates inside the shields and inside the outer layer of armor plating. A few ideas of how we can accomplish this:
Teleport Object: Can move 50lbs/CL, no cost except the spell slot. Downside: 7th level arcane spell, which no on can cast yet. Viviane will have it at 13th, drew can miracle it at 18th, and I'll be able to cast it at 19th, but right now no one has access.
Teleportation Item: One-use item that triggers a Teleport spell on itself and the warhead. Pros: No need for casters. Cons: Don't know if its possible with a Teleport spell, requires magitech equipment in addition to the nuke.
Teleporting Magi: Mage teleports onto the enemy ship carrying the nuke, drops it, and teleport off. Cons: Very risky for the mage in question, very spell-slot intensive.

Question: Can we get access the small-sized nuclear warheads, teleporting bomb-carriers, or multi-use items of Teleport Object needed to carry this out?
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In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?
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Re: Military Tactics

Postby Zanaikin » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:49 am

Depending on shells, Sky Cruisers can use either. Spoiler fiction has already shown them using proximity shells

Command bridges usually don't have much security, it's more of a case of trying to get location of bridge when the target is moving about (cause by the time you finish a divination spell, they're hundreds of feet if not further away already. Sky Cruisers may come with a lockdowned command bridge (and various other sections, if not entirely) though, that's an optional feature when purchasing. Many clans completely lockdown the inside of Sky Cruisers except for a single room - Chromians have various forms of teleport too you know.
There's also the issue of relative velocities when teleporting in, might cause the entire teleportation force to smash into a bulwark - they're moving, you're not, have fun hitting metal at dozens if not over a hundred miles per hour.

Also, keep in mind use of nuclear warheads (any) on an inhabited planet means you get a mountain of paperwork to explain your reasoning, and excessive use of nukes... don't expect your superiors to go easy on you.

Starshifts aren't nearly as easy as you think, and definitely not doable by conventional mages. One you need Greater Teleport Object (which is a lvl8 or lvl9 spell if I bother to come up with stats), and two you hit the moving target deal once again and Star-Cruiser starshift weapons require a lot of targeting calculations to get their teleportations right on target.

Imperials don't use mini-nuke heads any smaller than tactical nukes. The doctrine is if you don't need at least that amount of firepower, you shouldn't be using a nuclear device.
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Re: Military Tactics

Postby TheDude51 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:55 am

New set of ideas:

Triple Threat:
Split Brigade into three equal forces, and send one each at three different valuable targets. Targets have to be far enough apart that the enemy cannot move forces between them easily once they are committed, but close enough together that we can.

If the enemy splits its forces between the three, consolidate the entire brigade against one fraction of their force and attack it. If the enemy concentrates on defending one, avoid engaging there and instead strike at the other two targets.

Objective: Divide and conquer


Encirclement:
Divide the Brigade into four groups. One group is all the artillery plus the command landship, while the rest of the forces are evenly distributed between the other three groups. Have the artillery group face the enemy directly. One of the other groups circles to the left of the enemy force, one circles to the right, and the last goes upwards towards the top, as high as they can. Do all this outside the enemies firing range, using superior mobility to prevent them from engaging just one of the four groups. Once everyone is in place, all four groups strike at more or less the same time, the artillery shelling them while the other three groups rush forward into Plasma Shock Lance range.

Objective: Prevent enemy from being able to effectively counter our rush to close range

Blitz:
Draw the enemy into an engagement in open territory, as far as possible from everyone's cities. Instead of engaging, circle around enemy force and move at top speed to strike at a valuable enemy target, such as a city, industrial complex, etc. Then retreat from enemy territory, either going back to areas we have fortified or trapping enemy forces between our fortifications and our strike force.

Objective: Prevent enemy army from stopping our strike on one of their targets.

Question: How long a range, in atmosphere, can the Landship effectively control REDEINs? Is there a risk of it losing contact with the drones, due to enemy EW or atmospheric interference, at long ranges?
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In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?
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Re: Military Tactics

Postby Zanaikin » Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:01 am

REDEIN technology is built on Phased Telemetry magitech, which is instantaneous communication based on a combination of normal digital comm. with telepathics. It has no delay (unlike radio waves n such which is still limited under lightspeed), no limitations to range, and is completely unaffected by normal EW. If it weren't for this, the REDEIN system could never have been developed. However, a telepathic jamming field will screw you over.

With your encirclement strategy: reminder that with exception to Hussar & METAACs, most Imperial vehicles do not have built in life support, not exactly the best in extreme altitudes.

As a favor relayed through the DM-NPC: a suggest I'd give you on how to close in with the enemy would be to stay in low-altitudes, rather than high. The reason is simple: rail guns shots are mostly straight. The planet is a sphere. You can see land for only so far, and you can see the sky for a heck lot further. This is one of the reasons why Imperials use arcing artillery. Of course the only not-so-great side is when you do get closer, that's a lot of altitude to climb.

EDIT: Judson, also start thinking about what kind of location you want to land and establish base at, while they're finishing negotiations.
Kochikaze is virtually completely flat grassland, so don't look for terrain that doesn't exist.
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Re: Military Tactics

Postby Zanaikin » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:46 am

Judson, I think you've waited more than long enough without much input. It's been more than a week, so let's get it on the road =P

On another note, since this has been working out well for WoL, please use the something along the following lines when posting in-char meetings / non-combat actions:

<title, if any>
Abstract: what's this about, this could be anything from a tactical meeting to address a threat, an administrative meeting to talk local/internal issues, a PR-issues meeting, a diplomacy policy-setting issue, a diplomatic summit call, etc etc. Which you're at it, feel free to state an initial proposal, or you can put that in its own category.
Consult/Invite: Whom to call over, either PC or player-side NPCs, for certain meeting you might also send invites to foreign NPCs.
Reason: If you propose something already, start getting into the details.

be as detailed as your information allows is always good for the player. This could include anything to time of meeting/action-execution (this is huge for military affairs, and may somewhat for PR) to what forces/people are involved and resources delegated. Remember if you don't have exact details like say for time you can always lay a relative value, like "begin at a time that'll arrive when the enemy are around 40miles away from each other, or as close as possible" or "start broadcasting tomorrow noon, or when the next emergency is sounded". It may not always be doable, but try to analyze it and I'll tell you if its impossible. Getting every detail you could possible want may be impossible (and more work than anyone would agree to do), but being abstract can still solve problems without needed every digit of a number.

also, because of my thing with leadership, cohort will gain XP separately from your main characters, so plan accordingly. If there are meetings they should attend, be sure they do. Obviously, much of the XP here will result from all the planning and meetings.
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Re: Military Tactics

Postby TheDude51 » Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:52 am

(Meeting with Ivan, Ahmet, Pahlen, advisors from both brigades)

The main problem we faced in our initial fights was massive losses to the armored companies as they closed with the enemy. The most damaging enemy fire was direct-firing heavy railguns, using primarily electronic targeting.

Using Hussar scouts to boost the ECM of the lead companies was somewhat effective at reducing casualties, but the casualties suffered by the scout units were unacceptably high. One potential solution would be to equip REDEIN fighters with electronic warfare modules rather than missiles, and use them to screen the armored companies. This has the benefit of a providing a large number of screening units without putting any pilots in harm's way. However, it also deprives us of the anti-fighter capabilities of the REDEINs.

Possible solutions to this:
-Use REDEINs with standard armaments to screen armored companies. This will provide significantly less protection against Sky Cruiser fire, but will allow us to counter their air skimmers most effectively.

-Use Langskips / Hussars to counter enemy fighters. Equip all scouts with anti-fighter missiles, give standing orders for Langskips to engage airskimmers as a first priority. I am concerned that this might not give us adequate protection from the enemy fighters, given the numbers that they can deploy from a large cruiser force. However, from what we've seen so far the rail cannons are a much greater offensive threat than the skimmers, and I think the tradeoff would be worth it.

In the future we should also make sure to have the Katyushas hold their fire until enemy screening units are deployed from their assault transports, since they will probably be most effective at destroying many small units spread over an area, and also always counter incarnum juggernauts with sufficient forces.


However, given the current situation it doesn't seem very likely that we'll be facing another major aerial battle any time soon. The enemy has only 9 Sky Cruisers left to defend both Tsutsui and Asakura, and I don't think that they will risk facing us in open battle until they gather more forces. Instead, the main challenge going forward will be taking cities and fortresses from the enemy.

I would like to rely heavily on artillery and close-air support to clear away enemy strong points in urban fighting, as much as is politically feasible. This will require the use of missile-armed REDEINs for air strikes on the enemy, since they will be capable of more precise attacks than the artillery units.

What I would like to do is have all REDEINs armed with missiles be default, but have EW modules on hand in both Landships so that we can switch them on if a large enemy Cruiser force is detected, or if we need to assault fortifications with a large number of heavy railgun emplacements.

Aside from that, I'm not sure how much we can do to prepare our forces for urban combat. One thing would be to arm the Heavy Weapon teams with close-range weapons, but aside from that any suggestions would be welcome.
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In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?
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Re: Military Tactics

Postby Zanaikin » Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:29 pm

I remind you this is the unofficial discussion thread, meaning - you're not meeting any NPCs in here.

Put that post into the Misc thread for Kochikaze or something <_<
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Re: Military Tactics

Postby TheDude51 » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:13 pm

Sorry for the delay on posting, but I have to say I have no idea how, or if, the Imperium can counter ICBMs. Apparently modern fighter/interceptors, countermissiles, and ground-based batteries are unable to do so. Is there a standard way the Imperium does this?
Would it not be easier
In that case for the government
To dissolve the people
And elect another?
-Bertolt Brecht

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Re: Military Tactics

Postby Zanaikin » Tue Jul 21, 2009 6:24 pm

who said countermissiles or ground-based batteries are unable to do so? cause they quite can. Frankly, ICBMs are too easy to take care of when you have post-modern tech, especially with any kind of space-combat targetting systems...
I should probably update at some point [shrug], just not in much of a rush in that thread since it's already ahead... Drew however, needs to update the city thread...
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