PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Zanaikin » Fri Oct 10, 2008 2:48 pm

as I mentioned during last battle that I was going to do some adjustments after finishing :

Commanding Volley, War Master's Charge, White Raven Tactics - You may not receive bonuses from any of these maneuvers more than once a round (e.g. partake in charge but not its initiator). This does not affect the number of times you may initiate these maneuvers yourself.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby TheDude51 » Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:19 pm

Dai, I want to ask on the behalf of sanity that Protection from Range and similar effects be made to not stack with each other.

From the SRD:
Same Effect More than Once in Different Strengths
In cases when two or more identical spells are operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths, only the best one applies.

In the case of Protection from Range, this would indicate that the character would be protected by only the latest spell that has been cast on him. For example, if two Protection from Range spells are cast on a character, the first protecting from 100 points and the second from 150, this would be "two... identical spells... operating in the same area or on the same target, but at different strengths." This means that only the spell providing the 150 points of protection would apply to the target, and the 100 points of protection provided by the first spell would be superseded and ignored.

This interpretation seems closer to the actual text of the rules, and prohibits insanity like stacking dozens of Mass Protection From Range effects on a group to make them nigh-invulnerable to enemy fire.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Zanaikin » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:19 am

yeah, except that's for modifiers, a +4 deflect + a +4 deflect doesn't equal +8, the problem with the base rules is that multiple-spells of the same name do not cancel one another out, unless specifically noted, they merely supercede one another. They even raise this in Twin spell, which if you Twin-charm someone they have to make two sets of DCs to resist, and two sets of dispels to remove...

in the case of buffer spells like Protection, the stronger one takes effect, but once the stronger one discharges? the weaker ones are still there... they haven't been drained of anything.

so yeah, it's something I'll allow, and you can be certain the NPCs aren't abusing it ( I don't case more than one of a buff, except maybe certain key ones which are twinned to make them twice as hard to dispel ). PCs are welcome to abuse it if they want, I simply give no mercy.
And don't remember given the campaign, you're likely to be fighting day after day ( my rule on you can only rest to recover spells once per 24hrs stand ), and your spell slots are responsible for more than just the spells you cast - Spell-Shields, Glyphic Grenades, Rechargeable Staves, Rod of Absorptions... all that included. And if you think the troops have slots to spare for you, I'm going to laugh.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Zanaikin » Fri Oct 17, 2008 2:19 pm

modded the rules a bit after some though : you may now reroll d100 rolls (squall's disjunction) with 1AP.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Zanaikin » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:22 am

Just a note, I didn't peg people for this since I didn't warn people or anything :
You don't ready (if they fire) actions against Imperial cannons. Missiles that takes several seconds to travel maybe. But if a flat-trajectory (non-artillery) cannon fires, by the time your mind acknowledges the flare of the barrel it's already too late for you to put up a defensive spell. You can ready (if they aim at you), although if they fired at you already you can assume (or I will) they've already aimed at you thus your action triggers immediately.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Zanaikin » Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:14 pm

( Since I've been getting complaints that AMF assault mages are too insane... well, they're a central concept to Penthiae, and any lvl12 demands to start gaining some insanity. The minimum level for an AMF assault mage after all is 12, and they have to be both skilled in melee and have full casting which really cuts down their specialization. )

( How to deal with AMF assault mages. Because of the sheer skill and prowess required to be an AMF assault mage, they're pretty much considered rare and extremely dangerous elites amongst any army, although Airindale fields the most of any nation )
--Blasters usually maintain distance, keep themselves under Invisibility/Superior, and move after each shot to keep the enemy from knowing their exact location.
--Blasters and support mages usually keep from drawing the attention of AMF-assault-mages. For blasters, just the fact you're devastating their troops is attention-drawing enough. For support mages, if they notice you, they'll take you out to cut the healing / negate the buffs.
--Ready either a shaped AMF field yourself, or a good range teleport (e.g. Dimension Door), in case they notice you anyways and come charging after you.
--Epic level blasters or support-mages should invest in Permanent Emanation (Antimagic Field). This may be turned on/off as a free action, thus you can turn it on at the start of your turn, and turn off at end of your turn.

( How to protect mages )
--High level meleers invest heavily in Combat Expertise anyways. A feat that will allow you to help parry blows against adjacent (and must be adjacent) friendlies is Allied Defense (FR:Shining South). The feat isn't very often used, thus often AP-emulated instead. Martial maneuvers like Shield Block and Shield Counter also work wonders.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Zanaikin » Wed Oct 22, 2008 11:00 pm

Also, since Judson has been abusing the readies in an illegal way I figure I need to make this clear. I've ignored it up to now, but it seems anything the DM attempts to overlook the players tries to exploit.

You must ready against a specific TARGET and an ACTION. Saying "do this if I am attacked" means that your readied action comes in AFTER you are attacked (because TARGET=you and ACTION=attacked). You can say "if that character comes to attack me, then do this", or for ranged attacks, you can specify a group of enemies coming in from the same vector instead, like "if the oncoming squad fires at me, then do this".
You can also do things like "if my indomitability triggers, do this", thus specifying TARGET=you and ACTION=indomitability triggering. The action you ready however only comes into effect after the indomitability triggers.

Remember you can't predict the future, if you try something like "if my indomitability is about to trigger, do this" then I'll have to call bullcrap on you. "If someone attack me, do this" is also illegal since you're not specifying a target.

And if you try something like "if I'm about to be attacked, do this", I'll just make your readied action useless - there will be no warnings offered.



mind, this doesn't apply to immediate actions, just readied.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Zanaikin » Thu Oct 23, 2008 3:19 pm

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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Mr_Praetorian » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:01 pm

Again, all I ask is that you clearly label these things so that the PCs stop misinterpreting them. Arguing that these things happen merely because "the PCs don't have have a sense of logic" isn't good enough in a game with a sense of power that defies reason. I would also appreciate it if you would at first consider our view points for a moment when we challenge rulings as as differences in interpretation, rather than automatically assuming we're idiots. I don't know what your experiences have been, but I tend to find that castigation is not good for retention.

Additionally, I'm sure it sounds to you like we're all just trying to find loopholes so we can cheat the system, but, regrettably this behavior is typical of PCs who feel as though chance itself it set against them. Make no mistake, we expect any DnD game to have a relevant amount of difficulty. Very few gamers are looking for a campaign where everything is set to God-Mode.

Personally, up until the current phase in the campaign, I would have ranked this as, quite possibly, the best DnD game I've ever played in. The challenges were good, the fights were epic (many kudos to the arial dogfight with the Doom Guards), and story seemed to be on track. But with the start of the current arch, I can't help but feel that something has gone awry with with latter point.

Make no mistake, I'm not arguing that epic challenges should not be epic, that should be a given. But its not the challenges that concern me its the overall mindset of the campaign. My willingness to participate in any DnD hinges up a point that I adhere to as both a DM and a PC: The PCs should be given a chance.

I understand that some DMs may find this particular point questionable, but the fact is that players don't engage in DnD games for a joy of frustration and loss. Again, not knocking the level of challenge, but merely pointing out that the entire scheme of the game should not be set against the "heros". Maybe its my tendency to play paladins and other "holy warriors", but I find it enjoyable to watch the goodly PCs overcome the evil badies, as much, if not more, than I enjoy watching warforged get melted into towers.

During our discussions last night, you brought up the point that I tend to alter reality to save the PCs, and, haven been given time to mull it over, I feel inclined to point out that this statement is a bit misleading. I don't save PCs, I offer them a chance to shine. The most epic moments are often found in the midst of desperation, where a single miss or hit can decide the outcome of hours of preparation and intensity. I like those moments, and, as a DM, I try to promote them as much ass possible. Why do you think I invented the stunts system?

As much as I enjoy watching my creations rip apart PCs on occasion (that black dragon from Temple of Challenges v1.0 still brings me glee), I have to realize, as a DM, that its not about merely my enjoyment, but their's as well. Call it weakness, if you want, if I sense that my PCs are collectively not enjoying my game, then I feel like I've failed as a Game Master.

So, do I spare PCs on occasion? Yes. But only if I feel it might positively effect the gaming experience for both myself and them. For example, during one of the more intensive periods during the naval portion of the Battle of Sasserine, there came a point in which a vrock was about to tare Alexius into tiny pieces. My original plan was to let things go as planned, but then I thought to myself: That would be no fun. To have battled all this way to be taken out by a vrock with 9 hp (it was around that number). So, I gave him a cutscene, he fried the vrock, Alexius got to live, and I've yet to receive any complaints (which, as you've noticed I intend to inquire about after most of my games).

The point I'm trying to make here, is that whether we see the PCs as heros are just chess pieces, it should be implied within the foundations of the game world that we have the ability to make an impact, and that we have a chance. The former point, is, admittedly, a rather shaky one, as I believe our notions of 'said point are simply different. But, surely we can agree that the latter point, that of chance, is an unwritten law amongst DMs.

Whether the PCs feel like they're making an impact or not, they have to feel as though they have a chance to do so. Without the ability to imagine a a victorious circumstance, PCs loose interest, and morale breaks. Last night, in the midst of our discussions, you ran the risk of killing every bit of motive I had to play in this game with a single comment. A single line that runs on the same level of faux-pas as Obama's "Guns and Religion" comment.

And I paraphrase:
"this campaign is supposed to be tough, mostly because the PCs are supposed to loose."

What on this fucking planet would possess you to tell a PC that? If I didn't possess a DM's insight, then I'd probably be writing my resignation post. Seriously. How would you would feel if you walked into a job interview, and spent the better part of an afternoon telling the interviewer about yourself, only to have them say at the end: "Well, we weren't actually going to hire anyone. We just wanted to see if anyone would show up."

My first thought when I read that was, "Why bother?". Why should I, as a PC, bother to continue in a campaign where the outcome is already set against me? How am I suppose to pull victory from guaranteed defeat?

The obvious retort to this comment is: "Then why bother having challenges in the first place?" We have challenges, because in the end, its not a question "who's supposed to win". The enemies have an agenda, the PCs have a mission, and one of them is going to overcome the other. The PCs may have a lot of things going against, but but by the gods they have a chance.

In closing, I'd like to point that this should be taken as purely editorial commentary. I am not here to assert that this game requires a radical change in direction, nor am I here to say that you, Dai, are a bad DM. I am simply giving my opinion as a DM on the current state of the campaign. If I am incendiary at times, it is only because I wish to make a point. Finally, I wish to let it be known that I claim to speak for no-one but myself.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Zanaikin » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:55 pm

Okay, a few things :

1. I don't list EVERYTHING because there is simple too dam much to list. If I tried to list it every time I made one of these decisions, I'd have enough to write a book on. There's a certain limit to how much I'm willing to document, and this goes far over the limit. I'd challenge anyone here to find me that 'perfect' DM who documents every mechanics decision he ever made just so players will always know it... no, I'll remind players every so while, after which I expect them to remember it themselves. And in some cases, players will just have to find out about it, just like NPCs will do sometimes.

2. I know I do tend to act like people are idiots a lot, and I am sorry about this. I guess it's because in my field I've been working with people who think their decisions over, fully, and make sure it makes sense for the most part, before they propose it. Most of the time (and I mark most), when a player raises an argument, I'll THINK (although sometimes that thinking is really fast because I already thought about the issue in advance before I announced it) about it before I return it to them, and same goes before I tell a player something won't work - I drive it through my mind on WHY it wouldn't work first (usually involves an argument of me vs. myself). I guess I sort of expect my players to do the same, apply common sense on why something would work, and if I tell them it doesn't, they'll take the time to consider WHY it doesn't work first before starting to bitch at me immediately over why something isn't fair. There's a reason I'm not going for some customer service job - because while I'm willing to explain to people something they can't understand, I'm NOT willing to explain EVERY LITTLE THING because they're too lazy to think it through on their own first.
So seriously, think it through first before you drop me a "..." or whaleface comment.
Just a note : I hate people who are too lazy to think for themselves and prefer to have others think for them and spoonfeed them, and I get extremely incendiary if someone shows behavior that leads me to deduce that.

3. Yes last night I did say you're willing to bend rules to save PCs, but I also mentioned you're willing to bend rules to have the PCs do something they wouldn't be able to do otherwise. Which is the difference between you and me. I have a much smaller margin where I'm willing to bend reality and allow the PCs a hit in and enjoy it where they otherwise wouldn't, because my sheets and logic tells me it's impossible that attack would have hit, regardless of whether I (on a personal level) believe they tried really hard and deserve it or not.
When I believe the PCs deserve it though, I'm willing to consider the circumstances slight more in favor of the PCs (like give a random +1 to +5 due to this and that weird factor that I made up on the spot), but I usually refuse to change hard facts.

4. You misunderstand what I said to you regarding this campaign is tough. I said in this campaign, the balance of forces is on the Alliance's side - obviously, this translates to that the campaign should be an easy one right ? since you would already have a far advantage over the enemy...
However, the campaign is tough because I am using the same strategy the Imperials would use in the TIP final campaign arc to defeat the Alliance. Which means, in an universe where I AM controlling all of the NPCs (not necessarily to my full extend, I do keep in mind each NPCs abilities, weaknesses, and shortsightings), the Alliance will end up losing this campaign. Basically it translates to : let's see if you guys would do better and turn it around otherwise.

EDIT: Not to mention, certain characters in this campaign doesn't exist / doesn't matter at all when I did my strategic planning simulation for both sides for the final TIP arc : most notably Teodor and Samael, and your contributions may make or break the marginal differences in a war like this. I can tell you Judson's METAAC grenades (even if I put most of the final touches together) doesn't exist in my TIP decisions, so that already affects things ( not saying anything on whether it'll make a big enough difference, but it's something different ).

Not to mention Drew, even if this arc is meant to be a hopeless one to win for the players ( such arcs do exist in stories and myths, but this arc is NOT meant to be that way ), it might still be a required one. There are numerous stories where protagonists are stuck in a (or 'no-win') scenario, just so they can develop the characters in question, have them learn and gain experience, and keep the story going. Thus, even in a D&D game, I don't believe the DM should never hand out a no-win scenario for a battle or, an entire arc. I may actually give one eventually, but in the current arc I DID design it so the players would have a chance - how much chance it decided by yourselves, of course.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Zanaikin » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:15 pm

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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Sajuuk » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:33 am

Dude, the final mission of WC3 is MEANT to be a no win scenario no matter what difficulty you play it on. Its a last stand to hold of Archimonde until Malfurion can do his thing with the Wisps. As for Halo 3 on Legendary, I'm not going to comment much since I've done that already in Co-Op and Singleplayer. However, there is still that PITA mission in the Nod campaign in C&C 3 where you have to fight a renegade Nod commander after engaging in a bloody battle with the GDI.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Zanaikin » Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:56 pm

So anyways, apparently my reactions are getting explosive when people ask me too much on why something I did is. Sorry about that, but yet unfortunately for you all, I don't come with the patience of a high school teacher, so you'll just have to compromise.

For all future questions you ask me on why something happened as I ruled it happened (or is/will happen), please do three things :
1. Go read the description of the spell / ability / maneuver in question first, pay attention to the text that describes the action, and not just the stats.
2. Give me a reason on why you think what I ruled should NOT happen. I reserve my right to not answer (and thus not explode) if you can't explain your counter-opinion fully.
3. If you give me a whaleface or "..." as soon as I declare something, then you better excuse me if I refuse to explain it to you, cause you can bet I'll at least be taking an annoyed tone. Why : because you obviously didn't even bother to try think about it first, you just want to bitch and whine about it.

Just for clarifications - I don't enjoy getting angry, in fact I hate it very much since I typically spends the next hour scolding myself for it, but when ppl's pet peeves get triggers or their little toe stepped on, it happens.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Zanaikin » Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:27 pm

before anyone think up of something insane like Phalanx Chained True Resurrection, I'm making this rule:

Any spell with a material component that is modified to multiple-targeting must pay the material component separately for each target.
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Re: PENTHIAE CAMPAIGN QUESTIONS

Postby Laharl » Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:08 pm

That already exists. It's called Reinstate Life.


Once upon a midnight dreary, while I pron surfed, weak and weary,
Over many a strange and spurious site of ' hot xxx galore',
While I clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour,
"'Tis not possible!", I muttered, "Give me back my free hardcore!
...quoth the server, 404.-Bash.org


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