Character Creation Discussions

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Postby Mr_Praetorian » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:19 pm

Remember, folks, if he has divine casting on one line and artificer on the other, then we can get sacred bonuses (assuming he's from Misalin).
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Postby Zanaikin » Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:23 pm

I won't really suggest artificer, cause it has one critical flaw:
You spend all (or at least most) of your time making items, which leaves you in the dark to all the roleplaying meets, which means not building connections to the main story and the strength of your role decreases...
...which ultimately means the DM has less issues with killing your character...

While Artificers are a huge help outside combat, they provide no significant roles IN combat, and thus their role is not considered an 'absolute necessity' like many others.

Of course this is partially balanced out by the fact that Artificers don't draw much attention in combat either, which DOES help character survivability.

But frankly, a 'party Artificer' role is something I suggest player to find a NPC to fill through roleplaying, not devoting a party member slot to it.



some notes on character role designs:
Note: While it's good to take Judson's idea when it comes to OPTIMIZING your character, I suggest you ignore his comments when BUILDING a character. That'll only take you towards the wrong path that'll increase the percentile chance of having an early demise for your character. Hogging party spotlight is not the way to go...
For ideas on BUILDING a character, talk to Dave / Drew on how to organize a design that's necessary and have synergistic values to rest of party.

Dispeller - Arcane PRCs have all the caster level boosts, and just by that reason they have the superiority in dispelling & counter-dispelling.

Tank - I refer to this has the 'heavy knight' role, being character who can attack without backup/healing, who has high enough HP, AC, & Saves to endure tremendously heavy punishment. I definitely see Derovarr heading down this path atm.
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Postby Squall255 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:40 am

Current Backup Build:
Paladin 4, Fighter 8, Pious Templar 4
Favored Soul 16.

Assuming a 16th level character. Level ups go to Favored Soul, then Fighter.
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<Tal> Our chem teacher said it didn't really matter how we titled the graphs and tables in our semester prac
<Tal> but i still lost marks for having a Table of +2 Undead Slaying and Graph of Destiny :(

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Postby Mr_Praetorian » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:57 am

Eh, not that I'm concerned that you'll be stealing my thunder, but between my HP, Marty's buffs, and Dave's adaptability, I'd say that we have things covered in the foward combative department. I don't want to make you feel like you have to play another healer, but it sets up rather nice to have two, so that one stays with the "tanks" and the other hangs back with casters to make sure the "cover fire" doesn't get "doused." Plus, it means that Marty's character will be able to buff up primarily for heavy combat, as she's apparently built for, without having to worry about taking on everyone's healing.
A few alternatives:

Archery: I belive that we all can recall how damned annoying that sniper was, what with the ranged disarming and shooting of arrows during casting. Having someone who can hang back and stuff the enemies with arrows gives us a ranged attack option that doesn't require magic, which is always nice to have.

Arcane/Divine Combo: I understand that you might be trying to go away from the support caster role, but having both arcane for utility casting and dispels, and divine for boosting and additonal healing. through in War Weaver and master specialist (abjuration) on the arcane line, and you've got a Defense Specialist with a part time in party optimization, and did I mention that you can heal us all through that tapestry?

Druid: Awesome class abilities and a fucking-hax spell list. What more needst be said.
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Postby Squall255 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:10 am

Hmmm... how about:
Wizard -> war weaver -> master specialist
Fav soul.
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Look! He's a brainless, life-sucking god of death. At sunrise he'll vanish like a bad dream. ~Jigo (Princess Mononoke)

<Tal> Our chem teacher said it didn't really matter how we titled the graphs and tables in our semester prac
<Tal> but i still lost marks for having a Table of +2 Undead Slaying and Graph of Destiny :(

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Postby Zanaikin » Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:58 am

I can easily tell you that your char isn't going to die right now...

mainly cause of something that has already happened but you don't know yet...

and IF you want to take a booster/healer/dispeller role, I can give you suggestions on how to do with without changing chars. You will still need major retraining:

Swordsage 2/Paladin 2/Evangelist 6 seems pretty center to your char's backstory at this point, no need to touch.

however, from there on, make chances:
1. drop the Seeker of Song and Fighter levels.
2. retrain for bardic knowledge (which stacks with paragnostic lore for goodness).
3. retrain Paragnostic Apostle abilities for Penetrating Insight @ lvls 1,3,5.
3. go straight Sublime Chord (Yes this can be adapted to divine-ver rather easily, simply change access to sor/wiz to access to clr). Grab Practice Spellcaster to patch up the loss of CL along the first line.
4. drop your third domain (that's not healing/sun) and grab Inquisition Domain (SC/CDiv, Heironeous).
5. grab Divine Defiance feat (Fiendish Codex, one of em)

advantages:
1. For dispelling, Sublime Chord's adapted Song of Divine Power adds a +4CL, enough to match up with the Ultimate Magus (which most boosters are), add this to Inquisition domain's +4 boost and Apostle's +3 boost and you have a pretty high dispel bonus. Now go grab a prayer bead (in DMG somewhere, as part of a bead strand)
2. Adapted Sublime Chord will allow spontaneous divine casting of the higher level spells (although CHA-based may hurt you a bit as WIS is your higher stat, but not anymore than the wiz/favored-soul design). This'll provide a lot more flexibility when it comes to the higher level buffs.
3. Dispeller builds also do best as the 'counterspelling' role. That's where Divine Defiance comes in.
4. A random bonus that simply got put together, this set of classes has a really high lore bonus. = INT +2synergy(5ranks history) +Bardlvls +Apostlelvls*2 +Sublimechordlvls.

disadvantages:
Loss of spelldeath song and combine songs ability. However without Spelldeath song you no longer need to try to get as high perform as possible, so dropping Skill Focus (Perform) & Hymnist would help in terms of grabbing other needed feats (like Practiced Spellcaster)
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Postby Squall255 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:39 pm

The problem is that none of those abilities carry over into Osmund, so one way or another, one of my spells each round doesn't get bonuses. Removing Hymn of Spelldeath would remove both the need for two songs at once, as well as the need for rediculous perform checks, but I'd still want max ranks, as it is a bonus to my healing spells. actually, Healing Hymn would be one of the few bonuses that Osmund DOES get...

but yeah, with guarenteed survival, then the previous parts of this conversation are moot.
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Look! He's a brainless, life-sucking god of death. At sunrise he'll vanish like a bad dream. ~Jigo (Princess Mononoke)

<Tal> Our chem teacher said it didn't really matter how we titled the graphs and tables in our semester prac
<Tal> but i still lost marks for having a Table of +2 Undead Slaying and Graph of Destiny :(

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Postby Zanaikin » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:51 pm

none of those abilities carry over to Osmund regardless of your class...

Item Familiars aren't meant to be a second you, they're merely on a support role. Their primary job is to cast instantaneous & short duration buffs when a caster is too busy to, and even then its not as good as a caster's. Usually I just have them take care of spells like Casting Array, Holy Star, Eyes of the Oracle, Duelward, Spell Turning, etc.
for that matter, Osmund's healing isn't even auto-empowered/maximized like your char. Hymn is indeed one of the few bonuses he does get.

Spell Use is still ridiculously powerful, but its not AS broken as you guys are trying to make of it :P.
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Postby Squall255 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:28 pm

I understand that (or I'm begining to anyway). This leads to the problem of me not being able to cast that many spells a round. if I start investing class abilities into boosting dispels, then my healing abilities go to waste. cause I can only cast ONE spell with abilities per round, and ONE spell with no bonuses, that's why I'm having difficulty figuring this out. Also note, that boosting CL past 20 doesn't help for greater dispel magic.
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Look! He's a brainless, life-sucking god of death. At sunrise he'll vanish like a bad dream. ~Jigo (Princess Mononoke)

<Tal> Our chem teacher said it didn't really matter how we titled the graphs and tables in our semester prac
<Tal> but i still lost marks for having a Table of +2 Undead Slaying and Graph of Destiny :(

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Postby Laharl » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:14 pm

Well...I'm pretty sure there's a dispel someplace that caps at +25, don't remember where, though.

Also, if you have turning you're not using, look into Divine Meta[Quicken].


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Postby Zanaikin » Wed Nov 07, 2007 6:32 pm

Chain Dispel (also clr) goes up to +25, and MDJ (magic domain) has no limits, would need to get more domains though.

Divine Meta[Quicken] gets real expensive real fast (5TU/quicken...), personally I find using Belt-of-Battle for higher lvl quickenings & Metamagic Quicken Rod for lower-lvl quickenings cheaper.
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Postby Squall255 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 11:15 pm

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Look! He's a brainless, life-sucking god of death. At sunrise he'll vanish like a bad dream. ~Jigo (Princess Mononoke)

<Tal> Our chem teacher said it didn't really matter how we titled the graphs and tables in our semester prac
<Tal> but i still lost marks for having a Table of +2 Undead Slaying and Graph of Destiny :(

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Postby Zanaikin » Thu Nov 08, 2007 12:04 am

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Postby Squall255 » Thu Nov 08, 2007 7:07 am

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Look! He's a brainless, life-sucking god of death. At sunrise he'll vanish like a bad dream. ~Jigo (Princess Mononoke)

<Tal> Our chem teacher said it didn't really matter how we titled the graphs and tables in our semester prac
<Tal> but i still lost marks for having a Table of +2 Undead Slaying and Graph of Destiny :(

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Postby Mr_Praetorian » Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:53 pm

You! Your character's build displeases me! Come to the boards for nerfing!

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